Veterinary Vertex
Veterinary Vertex is a weekly podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the clinical and research discoveries published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (JAVMA) and the American Journal of Veterinary Research (AJVR). Tune in to learn about cutting-edge veterinary research and gain in-depth insights you won’t find anywhere else. Come away with knowledge you can put to use in your own practice – along with a healthy dose of inspiration to remind you what you love about veterinary medicine.
Veterinary Vertex
Draft Horse Colic Myths, Debunked
Think draft horses “do worse” with colic? We put that belief on trial and let the data speak. With equine practitioner and researcher Dr. Jennifer Burns as our guest, we unpack why survival isn’t about breed status—it’s about when the horse arrives and how quickly we act. Drafts are famously stoic, which can mask early pain and delay referral. By the time they reach the hospital, heart rate, lactate, and abdominal protein often paint a sicker picture. The takeaway is both practical and hopeful: intervene early, educate owners on subtle signs, and don’t let draft status stop a surgical plan when it’s indicated.
We walk through the study’s design, the variables that could and couldn’t fit the model, and the nuance behind “more complications” without worse overall outcomes. Jennifer shares the conversations she has with clients who fear that surgery is a Hail Mary, and we spotlight a compelling number—60% of admitted horses were discharged—that reframes expectations. From clear displacement cases to managing two-thousand-pound athletes, we connect field realities with hospital strategy and discuss where targeted anesthesia, fluid plans, and postoperative monitoring might chip away at complication risks.
You’ll also hear candid stories from the road, the lessons that stuck, and the research questions we’re chasing next: is delayed care driven by recognition, logistics, or cost, and how can we fix it? If you care for draft horses—or love one—this conversation offers a sharper lens for spotting trouble sooner and a stronger voice when advocating for timely referral. If this episode helps you rethink colic in stoic breeds, follow the show, share it with a fellow horse person, and leave a quick review to help others find us.
JAVMA article: https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.25.05.0320
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SPEAKER_01:Welcome to Veterinary Vertex, the AVMA Journal's podcast where we delve into behind-the-scenes looked with manuscript authors. I'm editor-in-chief Leeds of Fordi, joined by associate editor Sarah Wright. Today we have a special guest from UPI when we're discussing how draft horses have similar outcomes as non-draft horses, presenting for colic with author Jennifer. And this is a real mythbuster. I'm an equine surgeon too, as you might know, Jennifer. So I really appreciate this. And thank you for taking your time to be here with us. Yeah, good morning. Thank you both for having me here.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you so much for joining us, Jennifer. And before we dive in, could you share a little about your background and what brought you to equine medicine?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, sure. Um I I can't say my story's probably unique. I grew up as a horse girl from an early age, riding horses, in love with horses. Um, and I kind of thought, well, if I can't make, you know, a professional career out of barrel racing, then I guess I'll be a horse vet. Um so here you are. Yeah, here I am. I did it. Um, but I didn't really realize like what that could be until I kind of got to vet school. And it was like, wow, there's a lot of options out there. And I really enjoyed everything, actually. Like I I loved all the different aspects. So, of course, I couldn't choose. Um, I decided to do a residency in um ABVP, where I got to still kind of do a little bit of everything. And it worked out. I actually ended up staying at the Atlantic Vet College. I work there now in the ambulatory service, and a large portion of my time is on clinics um and teaching the undergraduate students, but I do get to sneak in some research now and then. So it's it's a really great uh opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic. It was the same. I thought veterinary medicine was the coolest thing when I got to vet school. I didn't know all the things that you could be. And I grew up as a horse girl too, but dogs and cats and all their cool surgery. But for me, it was the first time I smelled dog diarrhea, I was like, mm-mm. Oh, that's not happening. Uh and then mean cats in a cage. Like I was scared to death of mean cats, like, give me a bull or a stallion and a mean horse any day, but a mean cat in the cage, I can't go near that.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely agree. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right, back to your author. Uh, your article, sorry. Your Jabma article discusses clinical findings, treatment, outcomes for draft horses experienced glycolic. Uh, I think I know what you're going to say. Like, what the what's the background of this research? How did you come up with this idea to even investigate how they compared to non-drafts?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, so I do have quite an interest in draft horse health. Um, that's been some of my previous research. And I kind of find like when you're looking through the literature, there's really not a lot about draft horses in general, um, especially even less about colic, which we know is just a huge problem in horses still. So it kind of made us start thinking that they have these problems that we know about that are a little different than, you know, regular, regular-sized horses, we could say. Um, they have higher anesthetic complications, they have more postoperative complications, they their metabolic rate's a little different. And probably really particular to colic is that they they kind of have this propensity to show abnormal pain response compared to, you know, smaller breed horses. So knowing that they had these differences, we kind of wanted to see like, does that change their outcome for colic and does that change their survival? Because those are kind of big concerns we think about with colic, but we don't have the answers to those questions. So and I guess we could also say, like, as a clinician, I've heard it a lot from owners and from maybe other veterinarians. Like, people tend to think draft horses have this reputation for doing poorly with colic, whether it's medical management or surgical management. Um, owners don't necessarily want to refer because they think it's it's a lost cause anyway. Um, they definitely don't want to take him to surgery because they feel that that's just not gonna not gonna work. Um, but there's really actually nothing in the lit in the literature that reinforces that belief. So we kind of wanted to answer that question like, is that true? Do draft horses do worse with colic?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love these mythbusters. I always say it's like eminence versus evidence.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And it's it's a pretty strong one that's out there. Like we we see it a lot. Um, I see it a lot with my clients all the time, and I hear it from other vets too.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it's a good dream. Yeah, it's it is one of the things draft horses, especially when an owner says something's not right. Like, and you look at it and you're like, that's not colic, right? It's not colic by any other definition of the word. So I think oftentimes they, if you're not around enough of them, they kind they go for a while without being properly diagnosed or treated, like, ah, call me tomorrow.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Um, and that actually kind of brings us to one of the points we found in our study is so the overall theme was a draft horse status itself is not um a negative prognostic indicator. But we were finding that draft horses were coming in and presenting basically sicker than non-draft horses. So they were getting here and they were having, you know, much higher heart rates. They were having elevated lactates, total proteins, um abdominal protein. And I guess that kind of brought the question of why? Like, why were they coming in so much sicker? And it's kind of like what you said is it is it because we weren't seeing the signs of collet because they are so stoic in the beginning? Um, is it because owners were more of like a wait and see, like, that doesn't look like colic, we'll just leave it. Or was there some other barrier? Like, was it was it a transportation or a financial or like a geographic thing? Like, you know, it it leaves a question, why were they coming in sicker?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's very common though. Uh speaking of data, were there any limitations in your data set that uh you looked at and might have changed your analysis or or shaped your conclusions?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, um, when we did do the final analysis, there were there was some data that we just couldn't use um that couldn't be part of that because of the sample size. Um so we did have to follow, you know, some specific rules for the modeling, and certain points weren't included in that final. So things like lactate, um, total protein fibrinogen, things that have kind of already been proven to be poor prognostic indicators weren't necessarily included in our final model because of that, those limitations.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, it's still fabulous. And based on these findings, uh, what should practitioners keep in mind when they're evaluating or looking at a horse that might be colicing? A draft horse in particular, obviously.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I think number one, the the big finding again is we know that draft horses, they they're a lot more stoic. They're they're pretty easygoing. They don't necessarily show pain like we think. So talking to our owners about identifying the signs of colic in these horses and then doing early intervention and treatment is gonna be our best case scenario. Because the fact that it's a draft horse isn't what's gonna cause it to do poorly. It's the fact that it's gonna come in later when it's already sicker and already has all these like negative prognostic indicators. So early intervention, always key. Do not follow the wait and see approach. That doesn't work for these guys, um, because they can just languish for days being really sick, but not really knowing it.
SPEAKER_01:I love how you said that. It's not because it's a draft horse, it's because they're coming in sicker.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And what are the key take-home messages you hope veterinarians will remember?
SPEAKER_03:Again, I think it is just early intervention. Um, especially for veterinarians, like we need to remember that draft status isn't gonna be our limiting factor. And I know for referral, like I I am um like a primary care physician, I'm ambulatory, so I deal with clients a lot of the times when we talk about referral. Um, and there's always gonna be barriers for that. Like it's it's not an easy decision for owners to make. Um, and there will be other things that we take into account, but draft status shouldn't be one of them. Like if they want the best outcome and that horse needs to go to a referrals facility, draft status doesn't matter. Just send it in. Like that's not gonna be one of the limiting factors. That's great.
SPEAKER_01:Was there a particular case or a moment early in your career that piqued this interest?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um there's a few. Uh I s I still remember when I was like an intern or resident, a lot of the cases that we're calling cases that still stick with me are draft horses. Um I still remember my first case of proximal interitis was, of course, a pertron. And I was very new and I had no idea that they could make that much reflex, reflux. Oh my gosh. I was almost terrified. Um, but with good management and with good treatment, like she she did recover. So it is doable. Um I will say a case probably that I still remember um that is really kind of pertains to this research we did was one of those like middle of the night, middle of nowhere, you know, two hours from home, middle of winter, going to see a colicky horse. And again, it was another protron. We have a lot of those here. Um, but she had a very clear displacement, like very clear displacement, and talked to the owner about it and said, you know, referralin would be her best bet. She's a really great surgical candidate. This was pretty early on in the disease process. And he just flat out looked at me and said, No, there's no point in going to surgery. She will not make it. And I was still really new. So still learning that, like, you know, how to talk to clients, push, push back a little bit. Um, but I was kind of like floored because he was just adamant. And I don't know if having this research at the time would have made a lot of difference, but I think it would have at least given me some some reassurance that what I was trying to tell him was was true. My side was you can take her in. She is just as good of, you know, possibility of an outcome as a light breed. Just because she's a draft doesn't mean she can't survive surgery. But that that still sticks with me, that case, because I still feel like um I don't know if I could have done more, but I at least could have had maybe some more um reassurance having this kind of research behind me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. And it is an out there, as you said. Uh so along that, other than treating early, doesn't matter if it's a draft. What other things in colic in general do you wish more practitioners or owners understood?
SPEAKER_03:I think from from the owner side, um, I think what I'd like them to know is, again, like referral or surgery. It's not like a Hail Mary, it's not the end of the world. Um, our study showed 60% of horses that came in did leave, were discharged. Um so just because we're suggesting referral or we're suggesting surgery, it's it's not like we're just taking a chance and trying to get them there. Like they have a good chance of surviving, especially if we can get them in early, especially if we can um, you know, kind of get them in before we start seeing some of these things like the high lactates and the high fibrinogens and stuff like that. So referral isn't the end of the world. It's it's what we're doing to try and help your horse get better faster.
SPEAKER_01:And financially, the earlier they get in, the less workout you're gonna have hanging all those bags of fluids to try and keep up with a horse that has price.
SPEAKER_03:And probably a better chance of having less complications, right? Like the earlier we can get in and get these things done, the better it's gonna be. Yeah. But I still feel like I have to have this conversation with owners quite a bit. So, what are the next steps for research in this area?
SPEAKER_01:Hmm.
SPEAKER_03:Um, good question. Uh, I do, I do still want to continue looking into some draft horse colic things. I think one in particular is again, why why are we seeing them so sick compared to their non-draft counterparts? Uh, I kind of want to just look into that a little more to see, again, if it's just a a recognition thing on the side of the owner or maybe the ref veterinarian. Or is there some other barrier for for that? Like, is there a reason that they're not getting here faster? Do you have any any gut feelings?
SPEAKER_01:What why that is? Get it, gut feeling.
SPEAKER_03:I love a good pun. Um you just had to. It was right there. You had to. But um, I think again, it is a recognition thing. And I think it is maybe owners are just kind of willing to wait and see, not realizing that things could change a lot and be a lot different outcome if they came in earlier.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what a great educational campaign for across the nation, probably across the world. It's, you know, in in university we don't see a lot of draft horses, so students don't learn about it. Ooh, I have an idea. A technical tutorial video, and you can say, Do you know what colic looks like in a draft horse? We'll talk to you about that after the podcast. Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_02:Love it. So, what aspects of draft horse colic still remain poorly understood?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, um I guess the thing for me is I don't know if I would say poorly understood, but like when we have draft horses referred in and stuff like that, like to a hospital, whether it's medical or surgical management, like is there things that we could be doing to increase their odds of survival? So is there, you know, anesthetic plans we can optimize, you know, for shorter surgical times, shorter anesthetic times, or is there certain postoperative care that we should be knowing the draft horses need, you know, to kind of minimize the risk of complications? Because we did show in this paper that uh despite the fact that draft horse status isn't going to change their outcome, they do have more complications than their non-draft counterparts. So I guess is there something that we can do? Is there some sort of strategy we can come up with when these horses come in to minimize that?
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. I don't know what that is. Uh, because you approach them all the same, but you're right, their whole omics is just different.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they they have a lot of like hemodynamic, the obvious, you know, weight differences, things like that. That should we be considering certain things with those to make their trip through the hospital easier or less problematic?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know about yours. Most of ours are quite on the metabolic side as well, a little chunky.
SPEAKER_03:We actually our draft population here is a lot of draft pulling horses. So nice. Younger, very fit, 2,000-pound like athletes. Yeah. So I don't see many of them.
SPEAKER_01:How does your training and previous work prepare you to think about this topic, gather the data, analyze it, and then cross the finish line by writing the article?
SPEAKER_03:I think I'm very fortunate um to kind of be in the position I am. Like being an ambulatory practitioner in an academic institute kind of gives you some benefits. Um, so I still get to be on the road. I'm still out with my students all the time, talking to clients, kind of getting their opinions on these kind of things. Um, and that's where a lot of my research comes from. It's like, okay, well, the clients are saying this. Is it true? But then I can take that back. And I have, you know, a number of great colleagues that we can do kind of collaborative research on, which, you know, makes it really easy for me to kind of answer some of these questions. I work, all my research is done in collaboration because it gives us that that view from the ambulatory setting, from the surgical side, from the medicine side. It kind of invites everyone.
SPEAKER_01:You're so excellent to interview, like all the follow-up things I was going to ask you, just given this like super complete answer. It's really, really fun.
SPEAKER_03:I just like to talk a lot, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:No, you answer it very succinctly and and fully.
SPEAKER_03:It's like when I write a paper, they're like, wow, you probably want to tone it down a bit. I I tend to write a little extra and then we have to to crop it back a bit.
SPEAKER_01:That's the medicine in you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, very true.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sometimes it's easier to crop it back, I will say, like than try to add more points. Yep, definitely. All right, so before we wrap up, let's have a little bit of fun. Okay. Two fine questions for you today. First one, if you could instantly communicate with any other species, which would you pick? And what's the first thing you would ask them?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I I think as an e-quine practitioner, I feel like I have to say horses. Um, but I don't know if it would be to ask them. It would be more to like maybe give them some advice that would make their life easier, but also our life easier. Like things like please just drink your drink your water, um, stop rolling next to the fences. Not everything that moves out there is trying to kill you, like stuff like that to just make both of our lives easier.
SPEAKER_01:Or as a writer, that sunspot was there two minutes ago. It's okay.
SPEAKER_03:Don't worry about it. You don't have to bolt.
SPEAKER_02:Like, as most of our listeners know, I have two cats. I feel very similar about them. Like, please don't eat that plastic target bag on the floor that I haven't put away yet. Your stomach's not gonna like it later.
SPEAKER_03:But like with cats, you also want to be like, you know, why are you judging me so much? You know, like that if you ever want to be humbled, own a cat.
SPEAKER_02:Well there you go. Absolutely. So, next question. If you could design a dream animal clinic or a dream barn, what whimsical feature would you add just for fun?
SPEAKER_03:Um, so a dream barn, uh, there's so many things. I don't know if it would be called whimsical, but like things that could just make your life easier, like some sort of little AI mucking robot. Like it goes in there, finds the plots, finds the manure, takes that out, shoots it outside. Like we're just done, right?
SPEAKER_01:Um I want I want an AI bot to go get my horse from the way over there in the pasture.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, when your horse sees you and goes the other way, that little bot just goes and gets it for you.
SPEAKER_01:Like that's awesome. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us. And for our listeners and viewers, you can read Jennifer's article on JAVMA. I'm Lisa Fordier here with Sarah Wright. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of Veterinary Vertex. And hey Ramsey, don't forget to listen to your mom's podcast. And don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.
